Interview with Artist Nabil Ali
IEM, NOVA Lisbon – 2017
IEM - Q1: How did you get involved in the “art world”? Do you feel like you belong in any artistic movement?
Nabil: Getting involved in the wider art world materialized whilst on my degree. I had always produced solo shows with eccentric installations within the moment without any academic baggage, long before completing modules or essays. 1991 was my first solo painting show in a small Gallery in Essex that depicted abstracts of our natural world showing in abstract form the dark elements that shadow our world. This exhibition was successful, and I continued to survive after the 1990s employment recession – which had been an uphill struggle with testing and challenging times.
Artistic movements come and go and only live for a very short time to become embedded in history books and articles. I do have views on the world but whether I exist inside of any art movement still remains to be examined.
IEM - Q2: Can you name some of the factors that most influenced you on your artistic path? Your education? Family and social environments? The “problems of the world”?
Nabil: I have always been creative which came naturally to me at a young age. I was an artist long before I went off to study for a fine art degree from the University of Essex, and had worked for several years in London’s Advertising Studio’s as an in-house graphic designer and artistic illustrator. This would be the modern equivalent to the medieval scriptorium using typography and illustrations to convey a message using a set of rules without the religious content. I learnt many drawing board skills from the evolution of the old world before the ‘digital revolution’ took hold throughout the advertising industry. There were many worker casualties who suffered unemployment from the cold calculated digital screens in the art studios, with the new technology dissolving and replacing staff in the artistic industry worldwide overnight! Only a hand full of us continued using ancient methods of discipline combined with the modern world and I strongly believe that one day someone will pick up the pieces and realize what the world has really become.
I’m a survivor of the digital revolution, with one foot in each world – as I decided long ago in the 1980s to learn how graphic programs worked on Apple Macs as well as keep my practical skills of making and producing art. The more I used graphic programs the deeper I become involved in developing historic practical skills ie: making my own drawing ink from oak galls, growing plants for colour and paint, which was once the medieval graphic studios of the past in producing illuminated manuscripts in the trade!!
It can be complicated when dealing with Ai – Artificial Intelligence – especially if we’re not fully conscious of its existence and the future of our own. If the human race decided to pull the plug on the digital network tomorrow, skills like making your own ink and ways to create plant colours and colours made from natural resources may indeed be valid. We evolve with our surroundings making us who we are whether for Science or for the Arts, yet if we look up we’ll become aware of a lapis blue sky through the dark misty clouds of life to see that the sun is still shining above our heads.
The path I chose was a difficult one, a master’s path to understanding the possibilities of discovery. To many, it’s life’s experience of dealing with challenging episodes by overcoming the dark shadows through improvising with limited tools and opportunities. Today the world can be an uncertain place, but at the time of my art experience at university, I managed to get through my degree all those years ago by understanding the willpower of “Ernest Shackleton” on his Imperial Trans-Antarctic Expedition of 1914–17. He had nothing to do with the art world, yet I compared my own trivial journey of academic life to his endurance, improvisation and outstanding survival mindset in the bleakest of world landscapes. I’d admired his inner strength to continue without losing a single life when all odds were against him and the situation!!
In my opinion, that’s honest leadership and a testament to the human spirit, when all you have is your experience and intelligence to think logically without sinking into the depths of hell.....!
IEM - Q3: Why did you first start to use pigments obtained from organic matter? What motivated you to make that choice?
Nabil: I’ve always been around plants and wildlife from a very young age, emotionally connected with my natural surroundings. Before I went back into higher education to study for my Fine Arts degree, I established a herb garden that was inspired by a sixteenth-century woodcut of a gardener growing herbs and the ‘woad’ plant. I had a choice whether to keep developing my garden or to give it up to start a degree! This was a challenging time, so I decided to take my garden to my degree and created an “Artist palette” from the plants growing in the herb garden. This seemed the obvious route to take and am still working with plants on a deeper and more profound level with leading experts and institutions.
I started to bridge the gap between Science and the Art world by researching the ‘Spindigo’ project in 2002 whilst in the first year of my degree. The scientific project was led by Prof. P. John from the University of Bristol who formulated a European Government blueprint for non-food crops using the Woad plant. This was tested in seven European countries as a large group, and I visited the first farmer in Italy who adopted this crop that yielded an organic blue pigment. The herb pigments that I developed in England from my garden travelled to Monte San Martino – East Italy, so I could show key people what could be possible using plants to make colour (also to see Carlo Crivelli’s alter masterpieces in their original positions in Italy other than seeing them in a museum environment.
Image: Pigments in Brief Case, Italy 2003 | Original pigment workshed.
The case went as hand luggage through customs it was fun seeing the herb colour pigment jars show up on the x-ray machine with alarming expressions on airport security. It’s interesting how the specialists analyse objects before boarding the plane using modern scientific equipment!
The only way to continue exploring organic colourants was to study historic recipes in manuscripts where plants are mentioned. The Montpellier manuscript was recently translated by Prof. Mark Clarke back in 2011 and mentioned using a wide range of organic materials in the formulas. This was a good starting point to continue my investigation into plant colours in art and to integrate other inorganic matter into my practice. The journey is organic.
IEM - Q4: What are the advantages and disadvantages of using pigments that you produced instead of using synthetic ones?
Nabil: Producing your own pigments and colours gives a deeper insight into the materials used. Organic matter has a presence “an Aura” having a unique character of its own. This gives a sense of authority over your own work and practices with greater meaning. It was once living but still has the essence of life which comes through in the final artwork – a hidden dimension.
Synthetic pigments do have a place in the world of industry which is evident from our surroundings and the brightness of our clothing etc. If Perkins didn’t make the mistake he did in producing the first synthetic purple dye, then the world would be a very different place to what we know now! Making and growing organic colours yourself helps to understand the environment better than buying a manufacturer's paint in tubes. Yes, we could argue the point that each batch of tube paint will be the same each time you buy it, but with me, making your own colours gives you some authority within the production process and an intimate connection. Each time the colour will be slightly different or even quirky as demonstrated with some of the ingredients I’ve used in the past ie; cat litter, yet making colour is always an exciting time especially if the plant is new to me!
All colours will change at some point, but ‘some’ organic pigments can be restricted by fading more quickly than inorganic or synthetic ones. This is one of the reasons that plant colours were suitable for books as the pigments are locked away from the UV rays and gases in the environments which can affect the molecule structures. Science can help on explaining why they change etc, but as I’ve experienced developing plant colours it’s ‘observation’ and ‘knowing’.
IEM - Q5: Do you take all the recipes for the making of each pigment from the Montpellier Liber diversarum arcium manuscript or also resort from other historical resources?
Nabil: Both, I have used other sources of reference to produce colour, but the Montpellier is a good and complete codex of painter’s recipes. I use this manuscript as a basis, then cross-reference with other mainstream treaties ie: The Strasbourg Manuscript for poppy ink and cornflower blues; Iris greens from the c.1400 De Arte Illuminandi and the c.1500 Oxford, Pembroke College, MS 21, Folio 272r. where it references the Fleur de Lys (iris plant); there are many more examples. Also, I’ve looked at other paint sources closely related to Roman architecture in Vitruvius Ten Books on Architecture written in the 1st century BC which describes fixing plant dye to an inert substrate, which has filtered its way into medieval manuscripts with some of the principles still been used today in making water-based gouache paint. There are other manuscripts which have been used but all are only guidelines and starting points.
There are some reconstructions I’ve produced where there are no historical recipe references to date, making them unique to my own practice and the research community. Therefore, can we state that the creative development and achievements through the arts made by an artist be relevant and just as important as the scientific research on pigments in manuscripts or paintings? And can the findings and research be respectively used with dignity for future explorations by other disciplines without lowering the artist(s) insight and professional abilities?
IEM - Q6: To what extent do the materials you use, pigments and others, condition and stimulate your creative process?
Nabil: The pigments used do have an influence on the development of my work. If it’s site-specific work then I find materials on site that can be processed into pigment through stages ie: collecting and sourcing raw materials, drying, crushing the raw materials, sieving into fine pigment, and then choosing the appropriate binder all before thinking about using them. If I’m following recipes from medieval manuscripts, then I try to incorporate the historical value into the artwork in a contemporary way. For example, the “Blood from the Poppy” exhibition and artwork, depicting poppy ink reconstructed from the Strasbourg and Montpellier manuscripts linking it to the remembrance of the first world war. This was a reflection of the darkness of conflict with its conclusive outcomes that affected our ancestors in one way or another. There are many levels to this installation which overlapped the “Portrait of an Artist Garden” project.
IEM - Q7: Is your relation with Medieval Age restrained to the process of how you obtain the pigments? Or do you also adopt other features from that period? For example, the artistic canon, social and moral values…
Nabil: How to obtain the pigments is important for understanding the relationship with the material. Growing plants and storing them for later use is an art form in itself and it gives insight and a connection with the natural surroundings with a direct link to the illuminator's recipes. I believe this builds strong foundations in working with reconstructions to inform us on how to handle paint and colour from the same period of medieval history. Naturally, we do not live in the medieval period any more, but to have an appreciation for the mechanics of the workshops is to me, very important. Any form of an order has a hierarchy in learning the ‘craft’ or discipline so the outcome is normally predictable. These values are still continued today in most learning environments which have come a long way since the medieval periods. The clues are in the text which IF translated correctly will give you access to the source from historic periods to today.
I realize that many medieval manuscripts have religious outlooks such as the Book of Hours, the Bibles or other sacred texts, but I see the materials, the plants, minerals, binders and the written hand which perhaps were echoes of someone’s soul…
An iris flower will always be an iris flower no matter which country people live in or the century they belong to. The plant has its own identity, its DNA structure, blueprint and set of growing patterns for survival, it belongs to itself and evolved through millions of years… no one owns it nor can they convince it is something else other than an iris flower. Does it know its name given by a hundred different nations, or through a complex process in producing a wonderful green pigment that revivals its cousin the Alder Buckthorn? Does the plant really care or not that it once belonged to the Royal Courts hundreds of centuries ago and was used as an important medicinal plant and perfume in the classical periods of Greece and Rome? Is the plant aware of its native home and habitat where Syria and Palestine are today…. Does the iris plant really know what it is – is it aware?
IEM - Q8: If art is not neutral, how do you define the purposes of your artworks?
Nabil: Depending on the argument and whether there is any meaning to the work if there’s any message at all…. Sometimes it’s a question of testing new media or a variety of compositions.
To be honest, I produce site-specific work acting as an intermediate between the object and the audience using techniques that are real. Yes, we could state that everyone has something to say in the world that is relevant to them or selected group with their own interests are heart – but my practice is the “process”, behind the scenes, the journey in developing the final outcome and bringing the background to the forefront showing other potential perspectives. Is it Political or Religious? perhaps both or neither, yet I can state that my work is original as I do not like to copy or follow any particular artist(s). I’m passing a non-linear perspective of our pictorial language into a time when we are governed by unforeseen forces, with everything becoming the past once we have experienced it for seconds from the now.
What is the purpose of producing the artwork? why not! It’s a way to pass processes onto those who may never be able to see past a picture hanging on a wall or a sculpture that is placed within a given space. Abstract frees the mind for the mind to be itself and explore in inner realms of the imagination, therefore, my work is an element for learning having organic matter at its heart to understand the world we live in!
IEM - Q9: In a time where you can find almost anything on the internet, why is it so hard to find images and information about your work and exhibitions? Is it an option or just a coincidence?
Nabil: It depends on the information and images. With the “Portrait of an Artist Garden” project much of the research and reconstruction results are copyrighted due to Prof Mark Clarkes’ publishing rights. The text translated belongs to Mark so therefore can not be placed on the internet for others to take and use at will. They have to either get his book or contact me directly to exchange the step-by-step reconstructions, which hold valid research outcomes. If the results are to be published, then I will not put it on the Internet until it has gone through the process. Also, I have not uploaded or organized all of my work to be online, but maybe I can think further about that!?
Regarding other exhibitions and events, it is normally up to the venue or organization to show images. But unfortunately, we are dealing with other people and their attitude towards promoting it! I would like to have seen more input from others in the past but I cannot force them to raise their abilities and to obtain higher standards. Perhaps I may need a better Manager or promoter!?
But in saying all this, using the internet as a platform can have its positives as well as negatives too. There is always another alternative....... ask the person directly for the images to form a conversation?
IEM - Q10: On Portraits of an Artist Garden exhibition, you collaborated with the Department of Conservation and Restoration of Nova University. How can you describe this collaboration? What was the impact on your creative process?
Nabil: The collaboration with NOVA was to build strong foundations relating to research and sharing reconstruction recipe ideas linked to biochemistry through an artist’s eye with historic content. Some of the project recipes were new or had never been tried before by the departments, using recipes taken from the Montpellier and Strasbourg manuscript.
My role was to present examples and results using new or established techniques focusing on organic plants that produce colourants. I had attempted 50 recipes whilst documenting a photographic step-by-step process before I had arrived in Lisbon. This was to illustrate how the medieval workshop was a working element from the written codex, showing other recipes from earlier periods which were integrated together.
Over the years building collaborations with NOVA needed financial support and deep planning, but much of this did not materialize, slowing the process down. The key is to have the right people on board who have an understanding not just from an academic point of view but from the outside too. If I was based in Portugal then it may have been easier to direct or develop.
Bridging the gap between the science world and the Creative Arts (SciArt) can be very rewarding, however, due to many differences in thinking between each discipline can be challenging – which has been noted since the days of Plato. This is a grey area of exploration if the balance of multidisciplinary subjects is not equal or have a different outlook in practice. It seems that both worlds have been divided in modern times where once they were linked and engaged together having a deeper meaning. The common denominator here is the plants that produce colour, which have or could be used in illuminating, painting and dyeing.
Naturally connecting with people from the institutes has given me a deeper meaning over the years, one that I value. Things may not always develop the way I would like them to, but obtaining the experience and knowledge just through conversation goes a long way to discovering the purpose.
There’s always hope…….
IEM - Q11: On 'Reflections' from a Water Pumping Station exhibition, what was the message you wanted to pass?
Having been performed in a factory museum and because you used organic composts, it seems like there is an appeal to a symbiosis between the natural and the artificial…
Nabil: The message was to move the past forward to embrace the future in contemporary thought. I used the beautifully illustrated drawing of an ‘Acanthus leaf’ depicted in the Göttingen Manuscript at the Colour exhibition at the Fitzwilliam Museum Cambridge. This was a starting point for using the shapes to develop the sculptural forms in the project. The plant grew on the grounds of the museum and grows around my studio garden, so I’m in contact with the plant all the time.
The concept of the final designs was to incorporate inspiration from the museum’s machine collection combining organic and man-made objects into one space and form. I tried to imply ‘movement’ into the work using repetitive rotation in circular motions replication the actions of the machines, creating pigments from the onsite coal that fuels the machine engines.
I’m working with the hidden detail which is highlighted through transforming organic matter into colour and art, so abstract form works well in the natural world. Furthermore, I’m expressing the point that you can make anything into the paint once understanding the practical processes by merging past techniques with modern methods to produce a colourant………..
Nabil Ali
